This is the eleventh conversation of the 100+ Conversations to Inspire Our New Direction (#OKFN100) project.

Since 2023, we are meeting with more than 100 people to discuss the future of open knowledge, shaped by a diverse set of visions from artists, activists, scholars, archivists, thinkers, policymakers, data scientists, educators, and community leaders from everywhere.

The Open Knowledge Foundation team wants to identify and discuss issues sensitive to our movement and use this effort to constantly shape our actions and business strategies to deliver best what the community expects of us and our network, a pioneering organisation that has been defining the standards of the open movement for two decades.

Another goal is to include the perspectives of people of diverse backgrounds, especially those from marginalised communities, dissident identities, and whose geographic location is outside of the world’s major financial powers.

How openness can accelerate and strengthen the struggles against the complex challenges of our time? This is the key question behind conversations like the one you can read below.

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This time we did something different, a collective conversation. A few weeks ago we had the chance to bring together several members of the Open Knowledge Network to talk about the current context, opportunities and challenges for open knowledge in Latin America.

The conversation took place online in Spanish on 18 June 2024, with the participation of Haydée Svab (Brazil), Fernanda Carles (Paraguay), Omar Luna (El Salvador), Andrés Vázquez Flexes and Julieta Millan (Argentina), moderated by Lucas Pretti, OKFN’s Communications & Advocacy Director. Sara Petti, International Network Lead and Project Manager at OKFN, also joined the conversation.

One of the important contexts of this conversation is precisely Julieta’s incorporation as regional coordinator of the Network’s Latin America Hub. With this piece of content, we also aim to facilitate regional integration and find common points of collaboration for shared work within the Network. That’s why we started by asking him to introduce herself in her own words. 

We hope you enjoy reading it.

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Julieta Millan: Hi, I’m Julieta from Argentina. I live in La Plata, near Buenos Aires. I’m a biologist and I studied at the National University of La Plata. I was doing my PhD in neuroscience at the UBA in Buenos Aires, but I left recently due to my dissatisfaction with the scientific system in general.

I moved to the private sector, working as a data scientist, applying knowledge from my PhD. During this time, I learned to program in Python. Later, I was part of the ARPHAI project, an initiative that came out of COVID-19 and focused on epidemiological control, including diseases such as dengue. We worked on mathematical models of epidemics using data from electronic medical records in Argentina. This project was my first approach to data science and open science, a field I am passionate about.

Currently, I work as a data scientist in the private sector while continuing to participate in projects related to open science. I am also involved in the organisation of csv,conf, where I had the opportunity to meet inspiring people over the last years in Argentina and Mexico.

I am very happy to be here as a regional coordinator. I am new to the open science environment (my experience in ARPHAI was my first approach to open knowledge) and it is always very difficult to enter into environments that are already set up and even more so in one that is as niche as open knowledge. So I’m super grateful for the opportunity and I’m looking forward to doing a lot of things. I would love to hear your ideas and opinions about what we need here in Latin America.

Andrés Vázquez Flexes: I have a question. First, let me quickly introduce myself. I am a member of the core team of the Open Knowledge Foundation. I am a software developer with a technical profile, although in the past I have also been active in the open data and transparency community, especially in Córdoba, Argentina.

Julieta, first I want to say that I am very happy that we have a regional coordinator for Latin America. It seems to me something that we lacked in the past and I am very happy to have it.

If you have had time to evaluate, I would like to know what you see so far: what is our baseline, where are we starting from in Latin America and where do you think we are going? It’s a general question, but I think it’s the most pertinent one to start with.

Julieta Millan: I think it is clear that in Latin America we have a lot of desire to work and a lot of knowledge. We have a spectacular education, and there are many organisations that are developing tools and educational materials of great quality.

However, I think it would be very beneficial if the different organisations could get to know each other better. There are many individual initiatives that do not connect. My current goal is to get to know as many initiatives as possible in Latin America that work with open knowledge. This is quite difficult, as there are many and it is difficult to find them unless someone passes you the information or they are already in your network of contacts.

It is fundamental to build links and bridges between organisations to create something consistent that works for us, beyond following the guidelines generally established by the United States, Europe and other regions.

I don’t know if this answers any specific questions, but it’s a general idea I wanted to share.

Sara Petti: I think Andrés’ question is very interesting and it might be interesting to extend the question to all those present. Does anyone else have a particular idea about that?

Fernanda Carles: I am going to give an answer maybe a little bit different than expected. I worked for a long time in the area of open data, but right now I am a data scientist and I am working on environmental issues. I am collaborating with the Mozilla Foundation on a project to create a system to predict air quality in the city.

My current work consists of finding relevant data to develop these prediction systems. I have had a lot of trouble finding data from field measurements. We hear a lot about satellite measurements from northern technologies, but these are not sufficient. In Paraguay, and in other smaller countries in Latin America, there are many gaps in terms of ground measurement data, which are key for prediction and monitoring of environmental parameters. For example, climate and pollution data that can be easily found in other Latin American countries are not available here.

To get the data I need, I rely on various communities, such as open source communities that do air quality measurements, and some state actors that have certain data and make it available in real-time. I am trying to get this data for free. I think that in the environmental issue and in open source data collection, there are many gaps in Latin America and Africa, compared to other continents where there is better data quality and more state initiatives. This is especially worrying as our regions have the highest projected impacts due to climate change.

I would love to keep talking to people in the region to see how we can fill these gaps. Both from open source and advocacy initiatives, it is important to push for these initiatives to come from the state side as well.

Julieta, I would like to know your opinion from Argentina, considering your experience in biology and science. How do you see the availability of data in the region?

Julieta Millan: Concerning the scientific system, particularly, or in general? 

Fernanda Carles: I think in general. Well, for me in particular, I’m also very interested in sensors, measurements of environmental issues, etc.

Julieta Millan: What I can answer from my particular point of view, based on my experience, is that in general in the scientific system here in Argentina, and much of Latin America, open science is not really present. Many people who do science don’t understand how it works and what it is for. The idea of publishing your data seems absurd to them. They think: “How are you going to make your data available to others? What if they steal my ideas? What if they find a mistake in my work?”

This is a big problem within the scientific system, the typical problem of lack of reproducibility. It is terribly difficult to find data. It is often said that data is available on request, but then it never is.

Although there are open science initiatives in Latin America, what I see is that, in general, it is not common or accessible. Accessibility is very low. I would like to know if anyone else has seen something different.

Fernanda Carles: I think it is very interesting to talk about these issues because they have a philosophical aspect related to what our educational institutions value. I work with data and my main source of information is the academic sector. I have a lot of problems because there is a lot of resistance to sharing data with the general public.

This really hinders a lot of collaboration and growth processes that could be very interesting. It’s a big difference from how things are done elsewhere.

Haydée Svab: I had one thing to say, but now I have five (laughs). Well, I’m going to introduce myself first. I am the director of Open Knowledge Brazil. I am a civil engineer and my master’s degree was in transport engineering and planning. During my graduation, I got close to the open source movement and during my master’s degree, I got close to the open data and data science movement.

My master’s work focused on the intersection of transport and gender, analysing mobility patterns from a gender perspective. I found many data gaps. In Brazil, more than 50% of the population is non-white, but no origin-destination survey collects this information. Therefore, analyses from a racial perspective, as well as from a gender perspective, are very limited.

I agree with Fernanda that we have many challenges. When I teach or talk about data, I always mention that we have Big Data on top of the same data. There are a lot of data gaps and lack of collection methods that ensure accountability and quality.

In Brazil, I identify three major challenges that we face on a daily basis.

The first is the preservation of privacy. There is a fallacy that says that respecting data privacy means closing all open data. Currently, the privacy of personal data is used as an excuse for not publishing open data of public interest. We are at a time when it is crucial to open data to promote transparency, integrity, and social control. We participate in working groups with the government to achieve this.

The second thing is artificial intelligence. This is a very present and worrying issue. The Brazilian government has introduced a bill on the use of artificial intelligence, including facial recognition for public security. This is of great concern to us, especially in a country with many prisoners without a final conviction. We are working to remove these dangerous provisions from the bill.

And the third thing is climate change. Climate problems are serious in Brazil. We have recently had rain disasters in the south of the country. This weekend, we launched the locally adapted Open Data Index for Cities. We could not do it in person in Porto Alegre due to extreme weather conditions. Many people were unable to participate in the online edition because they had no electricity or internet. It is crucial to recognise the problem of climate crises and to act.

These are three key issues we are working on. I think we can exchange ideas and set up joint projects here, especially on climate issues that are clearly transnational.

Sorry for being long, but these issues are very important.

Julieta Millan: I understand everything perfectly. I completely agree with the issues, especially in our context with so many vulnerable populations. Focusing on any climate change issues and also making people and researchers understand why it is so important to share data is key.

Does anyone else want to continue or hasn’t spoken yet?

Omar Luna: It’s a pleasure to meet you all. I am currently at SocialTIC, I am in charge of communications for the Escuela de Datos project in Latam and we are in a process of reflection to collectively build the school that we all want.

From the basic question generated by Andrés, four key points come to mind. Last year, at AbreLatam in Uruguay, Natalia Carfi from Open Data Charter mentioned that in these 10 years of the open data agenda, each agenda has its own rhythm and movement. For example, the feminist movement has strongly driven the visibility of open data, as has the climate data community, which has highlighted the need in that field.

In addition, emerging issues such as systems of care and the care economy are gaining prominence and require more inter-institutional attention and support. On the other hand, we face challenges such as open science and open government, where some areas still do not fully understand their importance or face access restrictions for national security or privacy reasons. This is something Patricio Del Boca commented on at csv,conf,v8, when he talked about “messy transitions” of governance. We moved from ecosystem building to data restriction and opacity.

Thirdly, there is the growing issue of artificial intelligence and its application in open data, which raises questions about transparency and the macho, binary and completely lacking intersectionality bias of these models in Latin American contexts.

Finally, we have seen an evolution in community needs towards more specific and complex data, such as those related to climate change, which require data collection methods adapted to changing conditions.

In short, the challenge for the Escuela de Datos is not only to address these current issues but also to accompany and attract new generations that consume information differently and demand more dynamic agendas that are adaptable to regional and global challenges.

Julieta Millan: Thank you for the conversation, and actually, I was interested in commenting on the Escuela de Datos. In our recent conversations, especially in the exercise we are doing with the form for those working on open data and research in Latin America, we have identified three recurring challenges: the general lack of knowledge about open data, which leads to a lack of interest and, consequently, low participation. This, in turn, affects the ability to obtain funding, forming a vicious cycle that hinders the reach and dissemination of the information generated. If nobody pays attention, if nobody uses what we generate, we won’t get the funding.

You mentioned the importance of new formats for sharing information. Although I am not a communicator, I think it is essential to consider how to adapt to these changes to improve the reach and relevance of our messages.

Lucas Pretti: I am trying to find a common overview, but it is difficult. I would like to comment on two points that are resonating with me as I listen to you. First, there is the intergenerational issue. I think our generation experienced the democratic values of an internet that was not corporatised or massively policed. Two decades ago, there were other possibilities. Today, that discussion seems less relevant for young people.

So the question is whether there is a generational challenge here – are we the oldest in the room in this sense?

Fernanda Carles: I have a comment on that. For me, I think it is not necessarily a generational problem. In my area, I see that the lack of knowledge covers different aspects, such as business models. For example, in my search for data to validate certain things, I found three types of initiatives in Paraguay that monitor the type of data I need.

First there are the state initiatives, which have their own way of working. Then there are the private ones, where many people buy sensors, install them in the city and sell that data. And finally, there are the open source initiatives. I work especially with one of these initiatives that emerged as a direct response to private services that sell environmental data and consider their business model immoral.

I think the main problem is a lack of knowledge. There are many possibilities with data, and privatisation is the prevailing model that most people know about. That is, selling the data to make some kind of profit. But there are other models. I think it’s a question of ignorance more than anything else, I don’t know if it’s so much generational.

It’s an interesting issue to convince certain actors that opening up data can be beneficial, even in economic terms, which, well, let’s be honest, is what really drives things in our world.

Lucas Pretti: It’s good that you mentioned that because my second point was precisely the dependence on the state. Maybe this is a Brazilian view and it doesn’t happen in the same way in other places. That’s why I bring up the dependence on who is in government, whether at the national or provincial level; everything changes in terms of funding and special policies, especially with political polarisation.

We have a kind of oscillation in this sense. It’s not just having or not having money, but rather having more or less depending on who is in power. I wanted to put this on the table: to what extent are we still dependent on state funding? I don’t see many foundations or philanthropists in Latin America as you see, for example, in Europe or the United States, where there is more funding for large-scale projects.

I’m not just talking about small grants and donations, but significant funding. In Latin America, the situation is more state-oriented, and I think it is important to discuss this question of funding as well.

Haydée Svab: I want to comment on the previous point, about generations. I feel that there is a generational layer in how issues are addressed. What moved us before was open data, public transparency and so on. I don’t think that narrative moves the newer generations in the same way.

But artificial intelligence does appeal to children and teenagers, and people around 18, 20 years old. They want to address, study and discuss for example algorithmic transparency. This demand to know the data that algorithms train is the way I have used to talk about the importance of open data as an input for society.

It is necessary to change the narrative we used to use before. The new generations don’t seem to care as much about privacy as we do. In discussions I have participated in, it seems that privacy is an “old issue”, for them it is almost a given that they will not have privacy. However, if we talk about algorithmic influence in everyday life, such as recommendation systems or facial recognition affecting for example young black men, then we are touching on issues that really matter to them.

Julieta Millan: I think you’re right. I’ve just never had a conversation with someone younger who tells me if they care about privacy. It’s clear to them that their data is already on the internet and everybody has it. There is no such thing as privacy for them, it’s very real and very shocking. In that sense, we grew up very differently as a generation, challenged in a different way by technology. I had never thought of it that way. Thank you, the data is very good.

Fernanda Carles: It’s interesting how there is a lack of knowledge of the digital body as part of oneself, and how we surrender to the reality that all our data is out there. And at the same time, we don’t advocate for opening up data that could be helpful in generating solutions and making problems in our society visible.

Recently, I was having a conversation with friends about how we think differently about data issues from the individual or from the collective. These conversations and activism in this field are very interesting and could really help our area to work in a more agile way.

I wonder, Julieta, if you have seen any interesting work or ideas in the field of education on these issues. What are your plans and what can we collaborate on?

Julieta Millan: Let’s see. Plans? I don’t know… 

Lucas Pretti: Let’s take advantage of the fact that Escuela de Datos is in the room (laughs).

Julieta Millan: Yes, exactly (laughs). They can tell us. The thing is that any data we collect will have the bias of coming from people who already understand and know about open data. People who don’t know about it yet will not be in our environment or answer our questions, because they are simply not here.

It is crucial to reach out to this group and sow a seed of knowledge about open data, showing its benefits. It is important to reach out to those who are not yet part of this niche.

Andrés Vázquez Flexes: I would like to jump in and invite you to look for ways to reach out to the places where young people are. I have given talks in secondary schools about open data and I think that educating young people on this topic is crucial. Not as an abstract idea, but something concrete.

A few years ago, my son, in a fight with the school over air conditioning, asked to see the school budget. The principal called me and I had to explain about open data. This is a good example of how young people can understand and use this information.

In another school, senior students collected money, searched for prices and bid for suppliers to make an end-of-year campaign. This is an exercise in participation and transparency.

The civil servants of 10 years from now are young people who today have not heard of open data and participation. Even if we don’t solve it today, I think there are opportunities to talk to young people and educate them.

I love a phrase a friend of mine says when he gets data that is not open through scraping techniques or other things: “The data was already open, I just gave it a nudge”. I have a friend with a climate data start-up who, five years ago, started collecting data through scraping techniques. He got a lot of data that was not published in a portal or a nice csv. There are techniques that our activism can help us get data without doing anything outside the rules and actively publish it ourselves in an accessible way.

Fernanda Carles: I love it. Thank you, Andrés, for your comment. I’ll write to you later to learn a bit about your friend’s techniques.

Omar Luna: From Escuela de Datos we want to offer you spaces to disseminate and socialise knowledge about open data in Latin America. We have open spaces for contributions, such as tutorials, advocacy on tools or initiatives that you want to share with the community. We are based on open knowledge.

If you have experiences, reflections on open science, challenges or possibilities of climate data, such as Andrés’ experience with his entrepreneurial friend, we are also interested. We have an experience systematisation section on escueladedatos.online, where we document successful cases in the use of open data in areas such as electoral, climate and diversity data.

We are open to co-creating and formulating collaborative learning spaces. We want to expand this knowledge not only in the current community that is strong and mature but also for future generations.

Thank you all for the space. We keep in touch.

Julieta Millan: Yes, thank you all very much for participating and giving your time. It’s great that we have these conversations. I hope they keep happening.

Haydée Svab: Thank you very much. I am very happy to have leadership in Latin America. Omar, we are also here with the Brazilian Escola de Dados. We can exchange cards, do bilingual courses, exchange tools and everything else.

Julieta Millan: I will surely be in contact with you soon. You are good examples in Latin America of things that work really well, thank you very much!