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  • @Jo: regarding your last point about indefinite copyright from constant updating the basic answer is no, you don’t get an indefinite copyright this way. If you possess a an 1873 copy that would be out of copyright today no matter what updating had happened in the meantime. However, obviously if all you have is the copy today that is in copyright and without a way to extract only the 1873 content you’d be stuck with only the copyright version.

  • Ian D – a difficult point. Again it would be useful to see a written reference for the claim.

    The 2003 OCLC lawsuit over re-use of Dewey Decimal classification system is a new data point for me.
    I found an archived discussion about whether DD codes can be attached to items in an (open access) institutional repository of academic work. Here are some words from an OCLC representative:

    “There are absolutely no restrictions on using the Dewey numbers. You can assign those numbers to your works and then use them to organize your works. It would be nice if you said something on your site about Dewey being copyrighted. But otherwise, numbers are numbers and you can use them to your heart’s content.

    The problem comes when you try to assign meaning to those numbers; then you’re using the work of the Dewey Editors. The text associated with those numbers IS copyright. But, if you can restrict the usage to just browsing up and down the numbers, you’re good.”

    http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-subject-hierachy-using-Dewey-Decimal-would-allow-moreuser-friendly-browsing-p21076114.html

    Is the situation analogous? The part of the Dewey classification system that gives meaning, provides a description, that looks like a “creative work”. The part of the core postcode data that gives meaning, the location reference, that is a “fact” which can be reconstructed independently.

    Postcodes are strings, locations make them meaningful.
    It could be possible to argue that the laying out of the postcodes over locations in the UK is a creative work as a whole. Crown Copyright is claimed – but then refer back to the discussions about the dubious applicability of copyright to geographic information in the first place, and the reasoning behind the old Talis Community License and the Open Database License.

    At this point I suspect you understand the law much better than I. I don’t understand how OCLC can claim copyright on a work that was made in 1873 – even if there have been additions and refinements as new bodies of work arise and need to be classified, there must be some portion of the DDC which is “out of copyright”. The time period may vary according to jurisdiction, but there still is an eventual expiry time – that is part of the design of copyright – right?

    Is it possible to keep making small additions and refinements to a complete work and thus keep it in “copyright” indefinitely?

    There is constant change around the margins of the postcodelocation mappings, as buildings are built or abandoned. In theory the original 1959 set of postcode locations should be emerging from Crown Copyright … (checks watch)… but this feels like hairsplitting.

    We currently have this prospect of a really full policy recognition of the social and economic value of open geodata. I’m still marvelling at it. Let’s hang on to the upside?

    I have learned lots this evening, thanks both!

  • Ian I – right, I was making that statement having in mind an assumption that we will see the BoundaryLine data released under an open license from April 2010 as part of the “Making Public Data Public” programme.

    That would include “political” administrative boundaries as listed at http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/products/boundaryline/

    School catchment areas, I am now realising, are another matter – I had no idea there was such uncertainty about how they are defined and managed, as the comments on this catchment area project proposal for Show Us A Better Way suggest:
    http://www.showusabetterway.co.uk/call/2008/07/catchment-areas.html

    I’m amazed to learn that there is a small body of academic research on geometry models for catchment area definition http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/54904/

    Not to mention the real estate marketing value of catchment area information, I’m sure I’ll learn to appreciate this as my toddler turns school-age…

    Any info on where the source data on fuzzy boundaries for school catchments can be acquired, would satisfy my curiosity.

  • “It’s enough to answer questions like “Who are my local councillors?”, “Are we in this school’s catchment area?” “

    Not sure this is entirely the case.. Both local authority areas and LE catchment areas are strange beasts that require polygon data from the boundary line dataset? PAF & GIS extract certainly are enough to know who my “Closest” schools and elected officials are tho, so it’s certainly moving in the right direction.

  • I’m told that since the postcode numbering system is devised and controlled by the royal mail then it falls under copyright law (ie there is originality in the scheme). This is just like the dewey decimal system that oclc vigourously defends under copyright law.

    Does that complicate matters at all?

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